Jacque, I noticed that right after you said Clinton lied and so we shouldn't believe him now, you present no evidence of anything that Clinton said in St. Pete that wasn't true. This is typical of the conservative answers that we usually hear today. Normally this is followed by claims that Pres. Obama is a socialist, a communist, a Muslim, and an Un-American foreigner who will redistribute your wealth and is coming to take away your guns. I'm sure other conservative comments later on will make such claims when they have no legitimate argument to make against Pres. Obama.

AND MONICA AND JENNIFER FLOWERS

Joe C: Fact Check: Obama in fact has stated on more than one occasion he supports the concept of income redistribution (not that social security is not already that) and the claim that he is a muslim is not a far reach since he did attend a Muslim madrassa as well as a Catholic School. (from his own book) So some of what you stated has validity and some has only partial. So I give it a party false statement.

Obama is doing such a great job at destroying this country:

Taxpayers money to the green companies that failed.
1. Solyndra-Bankrupt, 2. Ener1-Bankrupt, 3. Beacon Power-Bankrupt, 4. Abound Solar-Bankrupt,
5. Amonix Solar-Bankrupt, 6. Spectra Watt-Bankrupt, 7. Eastern Energy-Bankrupt.
All of these companies were Obama Campaign contributors then the democrats have the guts to talk about Bain.
http://usactionnews.com/2012/08/romneys-free-market-vs-obamas-socialism/

Biden's 'good friend' and donor receives $20M federal loan to open foreign luxury car dealership in Ukraine
http://dailycaller.com/2012/08/17/bidens-good-friend-donor-receives-20m-federal-loan/#ixzz23pEOTPYa

Just such a wonderful job:

The Obama administration gave corporate giant General Electric—the parent company of NBC--$24.9 million in grants from the $787-billion economic “stimulus” law President Barack Obama signed in February 2009, according to records posted by the administration at Recovery.gov.
Recovery.gov’s representation that GE had received 14 stimulus grants worth $24.9 million, and also whether the company now employed more or fewer workers as a result of receiving the grants.
In addition to the $24.9 million it received in stimulus grants, GE was also awarded $5 million in federal contracts under the economic stimulus law. These contracts were payment for services provided by the company.
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/obama-administration-gave-general-electric-parent-company-nbc-249-million-stimulus

@Joe C - Sure, here are some "corrections"

FYI - Romney's Jeep ad merely states they are planning to make Jeeps in China. Some are saying not true "since not at the expense of any US jobs". This makes no sense. What Romney is saying is true. The question is whether that Jeeps should be made here and exported to China vs made in China.

I've heard from many (including our President during the last debate) that Romney "would have liquidated the auto industry"

CNN Reality Check: Erin Burnett clarifies the "auto bailout" spin from the media.

Let's start with the allegedly Romney NY Times Op Ed entitled "Let Detroit Go Bankrupt". HE DIDN'T WRITE THAT. His title was something like "The Way Forward for the Auto Industry". The horribly pathetically biased NY Times wrote that title.

This is the first time I've heard this. Amazing.

Romney merely proposed an orderly bankruptcy. Guess what, that's what ended up happening after taxpayor funding. A bankruptcy.

Here's the CNN link:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2012/10/26/exp-erin-romney-2008-detroit-bankruptcy-oped-john-podest-andy-card.cnn?iref=videosearch

And when folks like Clinton say "Let's not go back to same policies that got us into this mess", realize this is highly ironic. The repeal of Glass-Steagall occurred under Clinton, as did other Rubin deregulations, putting Fannie/Freddie on steroids, etc. It the Trillions spent last few years works for you, okay. Not for me.

Well I hope all enjoy their GE curly Q, mercury filled, extremely overprices...federally mandate lightbulbs once they are the only ones on the shelves.

The incandescent will no longer be manufactured...................and GE will be one of the biggest benefactors.

But hey, why should we complain about the amount of American GE jobs beings sent overseas.........I mean, c'mon, it's our loving jobc CZAR GE Ceo Jeff "Give me waivers" Immelt doing the shipping.

@Beth L - Read Romney's statement carefully and GM's response. Do they plan to build Jeeps in China? They don't deny but instead say "won't cost US jobs". So it's really a different issue. Often makes sense to build products in the country you plan to sell. Other times, those jobs are exported because of unfriendly domestic environment.

Of course, all Jeeps could be made here and some exported to China, but that might not make business sense.

So technically Romney's statement is true, but perhaps not a big deal.

Trust me. Factcheck and others are not always correct. Details matter. Specific words matter.

Romney can’t be trusted, as Republican leaders, media and experts agree!

Gen. Colin Powell, a Republican and Sec. of State under President George W. Bush:
“I’m not quite sure which governor Romney we would be getting with respect to foreign policy.”
http://thinkprogress.org/security/2012/10/25/1086721/powell-romney-foreign-policy/?mobile=nc

Politifact: 42 percent of Romney’s comments in recent months have been false, much higher than Obama’s comments.
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/mitt-romney/

Salt Lake City Tribune, largest daily paper in Republican and Mormon-led Utah: “Romney (is) willing to say anything to get elected.”
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/opinion/55019844-82/romney-obama-state-president.html.csp

Rick Santorum, former Republican Senator: “This is someone (Romney) who doesn’t have a core. He has been on both sides of almost every single issue in the past 10 years. “
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av3q7-a-ayc&feature=player_embedded#!

FactCheck.org: “Romney distorts facts on Jeep, auto bailout.”
http://factcheck.org/2012/10/romney-distorts-facts-on-jeep-auto-bailout/

Brit Humes of Fox News: “Republicans do not trust Romney”
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/10/30/brit_hume_republicans_do_not_trust_romney.html

THANK YOU, President Obama!

For your many achievements, despite strong Republican obstructions:

+ Led the killing of Osama Bin Laden.

+ Improved US relationships with most allies.

+ Directed killing of several leaders of Al Qaida.

+ Implemented harsh sanctions on Iran.

+ Brought together coalition to remove dictator Gaddhafi from power in Libya.

+ Implemented Obamacare to provide healthcare for millions of people who
previously did not have health coverage, and to mandate several health cost-cutting measures.

+ Ended the discriminatory Don’t Ask Don’t Tell policy in the military.

+ Supports same-sex marriage.

+ Supports the equal pay act to provide equal pay for women and men.

+ Led the nation out of worst recession (gotten into by Bush) in many decades.

+ Implemented stimulus act to revive economy.

+ Ended war in Iraq, an unnecessary and unbudgeted war started by George W
Bush.

+ Began drawdown of war in Afghanistan.

+ Passed necessary Wall Street reform to prevent future financial collapse.

+ Helped turn around auto industry.

+ And, much, much more!

Obama-Biden - Keep move America FORWARD!

42 PERCENT OF WHAT ROMNEY HAS SAID ARE LIES,
SAYS POLITIFACT!

We can't trust Romney to lead our great country. No way!

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/mitt-romney/
(This is total of all of his comments ruled false. mostly false, pants on fire false)

@JByrd,
Just some clarification on what you stated on Jeep. Per Chinese law, automobiles sold in China have to be made with in China with partnership of a Chinese company. So Jeep had to create a plant in China. The ad is misleading but not unfactual.

Jennifer Flowers
Monica Lewinsky

Voting for Romney is pretty much like voting for George Bush, and Florida got suckered into that one before. Sad.

The bottom line is that nothing is going to change. A vote for Obama means a House will stop anything, a vote for Romney means the Senate will stop anything. I suspect the better of the two in getting some across the isle movement would be Romney since he had to deal with a massive democrat state and yet got things passed. So my vote goes to the person who I think can best administrate and get things moving forward and not just use it as a slogan for four more years of nothing.
Have to be realistic

Might be good enough for you, but I'm still waiting for a tax reform and long term fiscal plan from the President. I like him on many social issues and foreign issues, but truly and honestly believe he doesn't understand the long term impacts of his choices and lack of leadership.

To ask for a debt commission, but fail to support. Grade: F

To push through Obamacare (before jobs. housing or focusing on healthcare costs): Grade F

To believe a 2 to 1 ratio of spending cuts to tax increases is a fiscal plan. Grade F. Just read CBO's projections. There is not enough assets to pay for our projected obligations. Alice Rivlin and other democrats no running for office say unsustainable.

We need our fiscal house in order long term, then we can focus on other issues.

You don't know the real Mitt Romney:
Maybe you should scroll down and look at the pictures,

http://mittromneycentral.com/tag/service/

But I know the real Obama:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/eILPwSOtXxI

2 Reasons You Shouldn’t Vote for Barack Obama
1. Barack Obama is a corporate suck-up.
The President’s a member of the Democratic Party, which, like the Republican Party, consists of Washington whores working for their Wall Street pimps. With donations just under two million dollars, sugar daddies Wells Fargo and Deloitte are among the top 20 corporate contributors to the President and Mitt Romney. Obama’s pro-corporation policies led to an average annual corporate profit growth of 6.8 percent, which is three times higher than Ronald Reagan’s 2.3 percent.

2. Barack Obama unleashed unchecked military powers.
He signed the National Defense Authorization Act of 2010, which for the first time in history permits the government to assassinate American citizens abroad, to hold citizens and foreigners without charge indefinitely in and outside the U.S., to subject those outside this country to rendition that allows brutal torture by allied governments, to suspend habeas corpus, to hold secret military trials, and to replace revolver-carrying cops with M4A1 carbine-slinging soldiers on our city’s streets. Guantanamo is still open. He escalated the war in Afghanistan and ordered the assassination of African heads of state after unilaterally declaring war on their countries. He continues to order the widespread use of drones over Pakistan.

Name ONE thing Obama has tried to do to improve the economy that was supposedly blocked by a Republican congress... just ONE! Besides - there's been a Dem majority in the house and senate from 2007 to 2010 - so.. pretty sure their policies went through and this is the result - epic fail. Meanwhile, Nancy Pelosi is meeting with Hamas and other donors tied to Al Qaeda.. how nice.. She can't find support from AMERICANS so she has to resort to our enemies.. and oh yeah - it's illegal too

Seems to me Reid was successful in the endeavor as well. The grid lock in our government is not a one sided blame game it plays both ways. And remember a good administrator is one can generate concensus not division. Using that as a measure Obama has not succeeded but failed miserably.

I'll name one thing: the Jobs Act, which Obama and the Democrats brought forth in the House and which was blocked by Republicans. Included was a Jobs for Veterans program. So there's two. And, for the third, he proposed to Boehner that the House vote for extending the Obama tax cuts for the middle class (that is, under $250,0000, which he enacted as soon as he and the Democratic Congress were in power) and Boehner and the Republicans said, "No deal, unless you vote to extend the Bush tax cuts for the $250,000++++++ folks too. So there's three.

Steve, again, a partial truth. The jobs act was unfunded and would have furthered the debt and the dems knew it would be defeated. The dems refuse to come up with ways to pay for this stuff instead of putting on our kids credit card! And again Reid and his gang refuse to budge on the taxation on people making more some figure like 250K. So compromise stop playing the school yard bully and taking the ball home. Stop the blame game and act like adults.

Oh Goodie, he bankrupted the country that future generations will have to pay back. Ran a stinking health care through that nobody read and we had to pass it to read it. Then the government is going to tell us what care we can have just another way to let the elderly die sooner. Take a pain pill your too old to get care. Doctors will be leaving, hospitals are going to be charged a big fine if they release you and you have to go back. Doctors are not taking medicare patients. He does nothing wrong it's always everyone else.

He's been campaigning for 3 1/2 years the rest of the time he was taking elite vacations, golfing, TV entertaining, WH partying, Hollywood partying etc and Michelle with her 30+ vacations. They like that WH living.

Your entire post reeks of the rantings of low-brow, under-educated paranoiac who is pathetically incapable of thinking on his own, You obviously have absolutely no idea about anything whereof you speak. Nothing. Absolutely nothing you say is substantiated by a single example culled from observable reality, and it is obvious that you don't even have the slightest idea as to why it is critically important to support your assertions with reason and evidence. Your discourse is disgustingly debased and low-class, though, indicating quite clearly that you have failed to educate yourself beyond the most rudimentary level which would barely ensure your survival in modern society. And by the way, that's your own fault, not Obama's.

You cannot even define the terms you hurl out there like vomit from your vulgar mouth. I regret that there are intellectually lazy, perpetually embittered crackpots like you living in my neighborhood.

Oh Clara, you're going to be so, so sad on Wednesday.

Mittens is going to lose, that's for sure, and the only thing that is a question is whether Obama will win the popular vote, as well as the electoral vote.

If he does, it will be like 2004, otherwise it will be like 2000.

So sorry, Clara, but you're going to be very, very sad.

2 Reasons You Shouldn’t Vote for Barack Obama

1. Barack Obama punished the good guys.
His Justice Department, using national security claims and the Espionage Act of 1917 as pretexts, has prosecuted more whistleblowers like Thomas Drake and John Kiriakou. NSA Senior Executive and decorated Air Force and Navy vet Drake’s only so-called crime was to expose the waste, fraud and abuse of the Trailblazer Internet and cell phone monitoring project. Former CIA Officer Kiriakou told the truth about waterboarding.

2. Barack Obama turned his back on the racism issue.
He ignored the oldest, most respected, and safest civil rights organization in America when he refused to attend the 2012 NAACP Convention in Houston. He also dissed the 2009 U.N. World Conference Against Racism, held in South Africa, by boycotting each of the sessions. And during his first two years in office, he discussed race fewer times than any Democratic president since 1961.

That was a political ploy by Reid and his cohorts. They knew that the authorization of spending rules put in place would result in the bill dying. This was not a thing Obama was trying to do to help the economy, this was yet another example of his political jockeying during a election season and not showing a whisp of caring for the unemployed in this country. He even touts the recent jobs report as proof and yet again the lie is in the details, over 60% of those jobs are part time. Enough of playing partisan politics with our futures!

You need to remember a couple of things: the $1 Trillion wasn't an "Obama idea:" the House (which has to originate all financial legislation, passed it. And a substantial amount of that added deficit was the result of Obama's insistence that the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq finally be included in the budget--which Bush conveniently "forgot" ever to include, along with the minor oversight when he and fellow Republicans "forgot" to find offsets for the Prescription Drug Program they passed.

The spending in Afghanistan is still off the books. Its just changed names. The DoD has a baseline budget and a OCO budget. House initiates the spending bills Obama and the Senate can stop them. They did not. They did not even pass a budget. Any good President would have a budget. Any good President with all the spending would do better than 7.0% unemployment after 4 years. Obama is at 7.9%.If we still counted the same way we did when the hated Bush was in office it would still be more than 10%. And the $1trillion...that is per year not just one time including those years when Democrats contolled both houses and the Senate had a Super majority. Any decent President would be better than 7% with all that going for him.

Facts are anathema to the debased, low-brow base of the far right lunatic fringe. They can't even distinguish fact from fiction because they've chosen to get all their "infomation" from right wing propaganda commercials where screeching, under-educated carnival barkers pretend to validate their paranoid fantasies about how the world operates. They're intellectually lazy by definition, and the majority of them are superstitious fanatics and racists as well. They have no class, no refinement, and no willingness whatsoever to conduct themselves as mature interlocutors in polite society. It's quite disgusting, really.

Judging by the moronic forwards that I keep getting from radical right wingnut friends of mine, all they know how to do is to regurgitate total BS from the Fox Propaganda Network and fat Rush, as if that were the third book of the Bible.

Both Lenin and Goebels created the same path as the radical right loonies are pursuing: First tell a big lie, and then keep repeating the lie, and eventually some people will come to believe that lie is the truth.

Hank, you are such a racist conspiracy theorist!!!!

http://rlv.zcache.com/drones_obama_romney_yard_signs-rc0fa99a30601458697bc0fe8f6a10e1e_fomuw_512.jpg?rlvnet=1

This is so true - our President and we will win!

More like............time to realize all must move away from the baalief of needing a leader. It's crazy how so many people believe so much hinges on a national election every 4 years, meanwhile, they do not pay any mind to what occurs locally. You want real change, not the BS offered by Robomney.........you want real change.....be the change you want to see by getting involved locally.

One single person can affect change in your community, the President is a freaking puppet. Obama and Romney are financed by the same people. They serve the same masters...........not you and I....the American people. The machine continues it's forward......over the cliff momentum regardless of the front man. They are all teleprompter reading empty suits, not just the current Puppet in Chief.

No it is time to recognize who the best candidate is - President Obama

ROMNEY, JOBS
ROMNEY, HOPE
ROMNEY, POSITIVE
ROMNEY, MORE JOBS

Romney: more tax cuts for millionaires
Romney: cut funding from FEMA and let the states worry about catastrophes
Romney: turn Medicare into a voucher program, and let the elderly worry about it
Romney: shoot from the hip before you have the facts about international crises
Romney: let the middle class sink into the abyss, and forget the poor

SMH,
What is the proof that there will be more Jobs, because there was no proof when he was governor of Mass. What statistics or facts that he will be able to create more jobs?

Samuel you are right on: Hillary pushing the UN small arms treaty, UN global tax, UN hate crimes, Soros saying we have to deflate the dollar so we can usher in the New World Order. Boy did they deflate it. Now we have to listen to the fraud Gore talking about Climate change after Sandy.

Exposing United Nations Agenda 21
http://www.independentsentinel.com/2012/01/gop-resolution-exposing-united-nations-agenda-21/

Democrats against Agenda 21:
http://www.democratsagainstunagenda21.com/the-way-we-see-itour-blog.html

Only one problem with the democrats, Gore, Soros and Clinton are pushing this.

Just remember: Government that controls our free speech, health, food, water, and land controls us, we are then slaves to the government.

Consumers Are Getting Sick From Wireless Smart Meters
https://sites.google.com/site/nocelltowerinourneighborhood/home/wireless-smart-meter-concerns/health-concerns-grow-consumers-are-getting-sick-from-wireless-smart-meters

OBAMMY AND MOOCHELLE ARE PACKING THEIR BELONGS RIGHT NOW

Fox is the only reporting the news, The others only cover for Obama he's such a coward he couldn't appear on Fox afraid they would ask him a real question.

Keri,
Yes, you are correct according to Fox News own corporate documentations they are covering the news for 1.5 hours out of the day. The rest of the day (24 hours span) they are selling opinions to a consumer base that wants to hear those opinions. They are the conservative version of MSNBC. They both just sell opinions to consumer to take them as facts.

Obviously you failed to take advantage of the educational system when you were living up there on Long Island. The kind of trope to which you link is not validated by any factual evidence culled from observable reality. It is simply a deranged conspiracy theory constructed from snippets of information that are woven together in order to sell a product in the form of a low-brow movie which is designed to get intellectually deficient bigots such as yourself to lazily nod their heads in agreement while becoming even more apoplectic at the existence of an African American president who - by virtue of his very existence in the White House - makes them feel rotten about their own comparative lack of intelligence and accomplishment.

If any student in any undergraduate class in any discipline ever turned in a paper reflecting the same line of "reasoning" as this ham-handed attempt at filmmaking, that student would receive a grade of "F." You know, even on Long Island, you are expected to cite reasons and examples which directly validate your assertions, and in so doing negate all extraneous variables which would render your hypothesis moot if left unchecked. This film does nothing of the kind.

But to an under-educated, underachieving, paranoid bigot such as yourself, that means nothing because you have no idea what it means or why it's indispensably important.

How about this "documentary" completed right after Obama took office
www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw
amazing how the people in it were able to predict much of what has happened the past 4 years. Are they "conspiracy theorists" for their forecasting?

The very fact you parroted "conspiracy theory" leads me to believe you won't even glance at the movie I provided, but at least I can rest easy knowing I attempt to educate......provide others with a different point of view...........opposed to simply bashing and belittling as most do here.

Curious, JDMcC......did you even watch 2016?? The maker claims it's all done using Obama's words...........so unless you have seen it, I'm curious how you can claim it's not factual.

You may feel you have the moral high ground based on your reply, but rest assured, you are living in a fantasyworld as well if you support either of these establishment candidates presented as "choices" for the American people.

For those hyping a total trash movie denouncing Obama, as if it were real:

The Joseph Goebels News Network has reported that the US State Department has signed a treaty with the Romulans, and pledged that all white males between the ages of 18 and 65 will serve two year terms in the Blue Helmet Forces of the Romulan Empire.

On that basis Glenn Breitbart, lead anchor for Goebels, has theorized that this means that Obama will now release the five Klingons, who someone's fourth cousin in Charlston claimed are being held in Area 51, to the Gamma Sigma terrorist brigade based on the planet Alderaan.

The fact that the twelve captured Klingons, part of the Klingon invasion force which the Obama-led US Armed Forces has been unable to locate, are now being granted preferred work-visa status by Obama's left-wing Immigration and Nationalization Service, is cited by other unidentified sources as proof that socialism now exists in this country.

Once those fifty-seven Klingons receive their visas, it is expected that they will take over the public library system in the United States, thereby rendering everyone not now watching Goebels News as clueless as those who do.

BOY ARE YOU A DUM DUMB

@Sniffing My Head

Using all caps on every post really makes you seem more intelligent with these great posts. You are a child, correct?

Hey Cisco, nobody is listening because you have no expertise in anything whatsoever. For example, where did you earn your university degree in economics? Nowhere. Never studied it - no idea how the economy actually works. How about political science? Never took a single class. How about statistics? Same - nothing. Zero. How about any class in anything at all? None. Zilch. Never did any intellectual work at all. Ever. Too bad, but that's your fault, not the evil black man's fault.

Everything you claim to know, you get from commercialized neofascist propaganda programs that you lazily choose to have piped into your home and vehicle over your TV and radio. You can't come up with a single original idea that's based on your own independent analysis of factual information culled from observable reality. You have NEVER done anything like that. And that's precisely why you can't figure out that the under-educated, screeching carnival barkers on those programs are paid specifically to maniuplate intellectually lazy low-information voters like you, by stoking your debased passions on purpose while pretending to validate your paranoid delusions about how the world operates.

Your own intellectual laziness is what is responsible for yor failure to understand any topic on which you pontificate, and it is precisely why no educated person would even take anything you say seriously.

Should be about FREEDOM!!! FREEDOM!!! FREEDOM!!!!

Give us Freedom and the jobs will follow.

Paul Krugman has a degree in economics and won a Nobel prize for it and he couldn't be more clueless regarding the subject.......that's is, he's clueless unless we want to fight the aliens!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaED2ErdIv8

By the way, JDMcC, what's your opinion on the Fractional Reserve money system ripping off you and I?? How about the Federal Reserve stealing the wealth of the nation for the past 100 years?

Hey "Clemens," your moniker of choice is both inaptly derived and wildly misapplied. Mark Twain was the living embodiment of wit and widom in his day. You are nothing of the kind. You are a typical intellectually lazy conspiracy theorist who haughtily posits, with no substantiation whatsoever, that you alone are possessed of the "truth." But you are not in possession of the truth, let alone the absolutist version thereof, which, by definition, can never be falsified.

Given the fact that your hypotheses can never be tested or proven incorrect, they are inherently null. That's how the research process works in all realms of academic discourse. But you don't know that because you've never had the wherewithal to immerse yourself in any such process. Instead, you merely pretend that the answers to our problems are somehow so simple, and yet hidden by nefarious conspiratory powers. Sure, dude: If only everyone else in the world would wise up and heed your frantic efforts to bring us all in on the evil plot, we'd all be liberated from the demonic forces in some completely undefined way. LOL!!!

The real Samuel Clemens would have considered you a member of the witless brigade of conspiracy theorists who cannot understand that hypotheses need to be testable in order to be taken seriously. Obviously, it is quite easy for me to predict your retort, too: You will assert that I am somehow deluded, thereby "validating" your initial assertion.

You are absurd, sir.

Nah, I'm simply waiting for you to actually say something when you reply to others. Read all my postings, I actually state something substantial, not a bunch of words to give a semblance of knowledge and wisdom.

Enlighten me, where do I "hypothesize?
How am I "intellectually lazy?"
I'd love it if people who responded as you actually backed up their statements.
It's quite easy to grandstand how others are wrong, opposed to attempting to show them how and where they are wrong.

By the way, I know JDMcC and you sir are no JDMcC.

Cisco, You make another false claim about Pres. Obama and then provide no information to back up your statement. The facts clearly contradict your false claims. There have been 5.4 million private sector U.S. jobs created during the last 32 months. There have also been 479,000 manufacturing jobs added since January 2010. There were also more than a million jobs saved due to the President's auto rescue program. Contrast the President's job creation with Pres. Bush's job losses. During Bush's final year in office between October 2008 and November 2008, the economy lost 803,000 jobs. Between November 2008 and December 2008, the economy lost an additional 661,000 jobs. And between December 2008 and January 2009, the economy lost 818,000 jobs. It is interesting that almost all of Romney's current advisors were in the prior Bush administration. If Romney wins this election, we can expect more of the same failed Bush economic policies that resulted in millions of American job losses.

I can't believe that Cisco gets this much serious attention here. He/she is just a troll who posts the opposite of the reality.

yes, because more important than the fact the guy has had a few ladies on teh side, is his record of overseeing the most prosperous time in America that most of us have ever seen. Only a moron would be sitting around "scratching their head" trying to balance out personal indiscretions against the fact that Clinton lead this country into our best times.

Dear Scratching

The day that Bill Clinton is a candidate for President of the Southern Baptist Convention, or a candidate for Holy Orders of the Roman Catholic Church, or is interviewing for Rabbi of Congregation Beth Torah, that is the day I will worry what he did with either/both Monica or Jennifer.

I don't want some clergyman/woman running our country, and I don't have your obsession about the "morality" of Clinton or any other politician.

He was a brilliant President, and he still makes a lot of sense for this country.

@Dad of three

Exactly!

Being that I campaigned for Dr. Ron Paul, I am only left with one choice that somewhat represents my ideas.........former New Mexico Governor Gary Johnson.
If any person represents the American dream it is him. He's actually a real person, unlike the two clowns from the elephant-jackass party. The man actually built a business by himself....he actually governed as a statesman should....he actually left his state better off after he left office.

Like Dr. Paul, Johnson is more Liberal than Obama and more Conservative than Romney. He should have been in the debates to reveal just how similar the the establishment candidates are...........their rhetoric may be different, but they really are carbon copies of one another.

By the way, I cannot stand Obama, but I haven't brought myself to watch the movie because I do not need to see anything additional to make me realize what kind of man he is...........all I have to do is pay attention to what he says and what he does and what he does is no different than any other politician........he constantly lies.

Yes, we are all the MSNBC/Bill Maher "whitey hates blackey" talking point.

JDMcC.....You Be Illin' believing you have some moral high ground belittling and criticizing the rest of us as you reveal just how narrow-minded you are to believe all dislike Obama because he has darker skin.

By the way, oh high and mighty one, are you aware of the history of the D's when it comes to blacks and slavery?? People tend to forget Dr. Martin Luther King Jr was a Republican.

I will say, if only Obama were in the NBA, we would never be having the pigment conversation because he would be just another white guy.

Great comment, Gary. Too many people have very short memories. And we all forget how dangerous it is to serve at Embassies and Consulates around the world. These symbols of America are often threatened. In most countries the major line of defense is actually the local police or military of the host country. The facts of the tragedy at the Benghazi consulate will be investigated-- not by Fox news or by politicians such as Issa with an agenda to push, but by those who are interested in protecting America and her citizens. Shame on those who try to use these deaths as a political issue.

Yeah, I use to be a Fox News zombie. Not any longer, I'm no longer their parrot. Talk about liberty, it was as if fresh oxygen was pumped directly into my blood stream.

Keri,
Your cracking me up. I use to be so much like you.
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/11/03/fox-news-redefines-unbalanced-by-giving-romney/191118

YOU HAVE TO SEE THIS.

http://youtu.be/qrdfRAaSWj0

Fox News by their own corporate documentation only reports 1.5 hours of news in a 24 hour span. Approximately the same as MSNBC. Both sell opinions instead of news/facts. They sell them to a consumer base that wants to hear those particular opinions, because they agree with them. The "News" is a product like anything else, marketed and sold to a direct consumer base.

I am not to worry about losing the election. At this point republicans are trying to save the ideology, they knew a year ago this election was going to be difficult. http://election.princeton.edu/

Cisco, Nothing that you say is working. Your constant postings on the Patch say nothing and have been a waste of time for the rest of us to read. Even though you have nothing to say, you are determined to keep saying it. Your mindless postings about Pres. Obama sound just like the writings of a 3rd grader.

Gary,
Ford wasn't part of the Bailout. If you are going to list accomplishments, you need to make sure that they are actually true. Ford started their restructuring in 2002, and never took a cent of the bailout.

Although Ford did not receive actual bailout funds, it is possible to argue that the saving of the secondary companies such as suppliers was useful to Ford as part of effects of the bailout of the other two major companies. One argument for the bailout was, in fact, that the bankruptcy of GM and/or Chrysler would trigger bankruptcies throughout the industry sector. The successful funding by the government of the GM and Chrysler bankruptcies and the subsequent selling of Chrysler to the Italian company, Fiat, kept the whole industry afloat.

Lynda,
The downstream effects could have possibly effected Ford. I don't know how much, because of their restructuring. But it could be agrued. I find it funny that no one mentions what a great job Ford did with their restructuring, and the foresight they had in understanding the change in economic structure before everyone else. They were crushed in the media for the initial loses they took in order to grow later.

Good point, Michael D. At the time of the restructuring I believe many articles about Ford were written, and I am sure several case studies exist now. As a former Detroit resident, I follow news of the auto industry with some interest. One overlooked aspect of Ford's success has been their penetration of the global market with small, energy efficient cars before the other two US autormakers did much with those products.

Ford is part of the success story. "Ford beats Wall St. by miles in 3Q."
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/breaking/chi-ford-beats-wall-st-by-miles-in-3q-20121030,0,3611164.story

Regardless of if you agreed with the bailout or not, at this point the evidence says the GM Auto (Not GM Financial) bailout worked and will make the US tax payer money.

US Auto sales are now back to an all time high and GM is leading the way. That's good news and contrary to what many believe, or are being told. Below is a quote from GM's CEO, dated August 2, 2012.

"You can see that we increased our global deliveries year-over-year by roughly 70,000 units, thanks to Chevrolet, which is on a roll. The brand has now delivered 7 consecutive quarters of record sales. While our net revenue was down $1.8 billion to $37.6 billion, virtually, the entire decline reflects the strengthening of the dollar against the euro and other major currencies."

What Chevrolet, their North American brand on a roll, really hows that possible? If that's not enough evidence how about this. GM sold more cars in the Pacific Rim and Russia than they did in North America.

Reconciliation of GM's Automotive Free Cash Flow for the 2nd quarter of 2012 is 3.9 Billion.

Gary,
How does that dispute what we are saying? So you are giving credit to Obama for a restructuring done by the Ford Senior Management? They started this restructuring in 2002. I beleive both Lynda and I are saying they were a success story, but they were already making a come back in 2006. They had some hits due to the European Recession, but they are still following the same strategy they started in 2002. How is Obama admistration related directly to the retooling of their manufacturing plants, labor strategy, inventory strategy put in place before he was even running for office?

Michael D. That's why I said "Auto Industry". Ford lobbied for the bailout of GM and said it would help prop up the industry. Five of my last six automobiles have been Fords. Both of my sons drive Fords.

Gary,
I'm from a Ford family. I'm currently own a 2006 Mustang GT. Learned to drive in a 1968 Mustang Hardtop. Ford did lobby on behalf of GM, just their upswing was well before GM was having issues. GM didn't have the foresight the Ford management had. Where I think GM's statements and Chrysler statements are due to the bailout, I feel that Ford's statements are due to their own Management. This might be how we are viewing the issue. The bailout rescued GM, whereas I feel (due to my research, which could not be completely correct) Ford would have survivied and thrived regardless of the bailout.

Michael D.
Your 100% correct, that Ford made some great business decisions. They were also very lucky to obtain financing for cash flow just prior to the downturn. However, while GM literally ran out of cash, Ford was burning through cash quickly. It's hard to speculate where things would have landed without the interaction of our government. Our financial markets were frozen.

So from my view the industry is polar opposite today, from what it was then. Additionally, the point that all auto manufactures are enjoying robust sales in North America is a testament to the current administration, and it's actions during the crisis.

Gary,
I would say the robust sales in the U.S. market has to do with your first point. Job Growth, doesn't matter what the auto industry is doing if people don't have money to purchase. Which I agree with. There might have been some hits that were taken if the Government didn't step in downstream. Which like I said with Lynda can be agrued. But looking over the information of what they have done since 2002 when the restructuring started. Ford started their upswing in 2006, after the new manufacturing plants (including the parts manufacturing in Mexico). Ford changed to a more international company, now the European recession hurt them. Streamlining of their onhand inventory (JIT manufacturing) was huge for them and the quality they reintroduced into their manufacturing plants. A major problem with GM is a lot of onhand inventory. Obama and Bush saved GM, let us not forget what Bush did. He takes a lot of blame for the economy and rightfully so. But he did start with the Auto Industry Bailouts. As a Ford lovers (particularly Mustang lover) I followed the Ford case closely and we also covered it as a case study in one of my International Business classes while working on my MBA.

Michael D.
The entire auto industry was in decline during the recession 2007, 2008 & 2009, correct? Do you have evidence that Ford's sales were increasing during this time frame. If you do I would love to see it. Please send me a link.

Gary,
Sales were decreasing, but Ford Net Profits were stabilized. Do I have my report from my MBA class with me right now with my sources. No, I took the class in Fall of 2009. So what I can grab on the fly: They grew in gross profits from 2006 to peak at 42.9 B in 2007 but were still paying off their restructuring (through 2009). Then hit the economic recession both here and in Europe in 2009, which dropped their gross profits 18.3 B in profits in 2009 but had a Net Profit of 2.72B. Then continued their growth through 2011 which a Net Profit of 20.2 B. From Ford's own Public Statements. So did the recession hit yes, but they were still profitable. Gary, and at no point did I say "Sales", so why are you putting words out there that are not part of my agrument. Sales is part of being profitable, but isn't the only way you can make a company profitable.

Michael D.
Ford lost a whopping $6.43 per share in 2008. That is not sustainable by any means.

Gary

Gary,
Lets see here, we are paying off the credit we took on from restructuring which at the time was seen by the industry as a negative. Funny how foresight is seen as a negative. But then again, you really didn't like I explained they were taking a loss due to restructuring. Sometimes businesses have to do that. It's call paying off the costs of restructuring. Yes, in 2008 they lost money per share, they also paid 13.4 B in interest expenses from the credit to restructure (Balloon Payment from Restructuring). Gross Profit that year was 29.6 B. I wonder if investors are going to like that? They took a lose for a few years restructuring, but in 2009 they were making a profit. Their Sales since you are stuck on Sales between 2007-2011 never fell below 118 B (2009) which is also the first year they were no longer playing off the interest on those loans (Net Profit 2.72 B). They were doing a restructuring, yes there were some lean years. They posted serval years of loss per share while restructuring that is part of the process. Do you think that 2008 was the only year they took a loss due to restructuring. It's called the cost of business. I know you want to give Obama full credit for saving the auto industry, and yes his bail out may sure some union members for GM kept their jobs. But to say that Ford would have failed without it, you have no evidence to prove that. When all the financials and trends show otherwise.

Michael,
Easy does it. Things were bad in 2008, really really bad. Just how bad, your buddy Paul Ryan thought we were heading over the cliff, you know D word, Depression. Here it straight from him, not me.

Here you go. http://youtu.be/J3U8ZrThR3M

Lynda has it basically right on spillover effects, if both GM & Chrysler had not been supported by the US government.

The jobs at risk were not merely those of the employees of those two companies, but the hundreds of thousands of additional workers in the supplier industries throughout the US.

Those companies could not have been economically sustained by the volumes from Ford, & that meant that most of them would have gone under. Moreover, without the volume benefits from their sales to GM & Chrysler, those suppliers would have suffered the reverse benefits of economies of scale, and the supply cost to Ford would have therefore risen to uneconomic levels, thereby making Ford's product less cost-competitive.

As to the comments about Ford, the actions which they took to lock in their bank support by giving liens on plants, equipment, & even the blue Ford logo, was a defensive move by that company; yes, it was key, but Ford really didn't have much choice given their financial condition at the time.

Then, when the economic s**t hit the fan years later, GM & Chrysler could not protect their access to essential bank credit - despite opinions to the contrary, bankers are not fools - and their deteriorating conditions allowed the banks to cancel or restrict the credit facilities by default triggers in the loan agreements.

But, in summary, Obama's action not only protected GM & Chrysler, but hundreds of large & medium size suppliers, and therefore protected Ford too.

Gary,
Thank you. You went to the if you don't agree with me, you must be a Romney fan. I wish the people on this board would make up their mind if I'm Conservative or Liberal. Because you know when a person doesn't have a true agrument when they go to the labels. Thank you. I guess the recession caused by Bush started for Ford in 1999. Because that is when they were truly not sustainable.

Jerry,
Yes, that is where I said it would be a good agrument. I think they would be an issue possibly on the second contract. The initial deals they through the new contracts would have kept them a float for a while. Also the diversification they did in their part precurement would also limit the exposure to the American Manufactures they were purchasing parts from. They get parts from overseas for a lot of things. Now economies of scale would have hurt them, just like it would hurt any non-top down car manufacturer. But it would potentially give some of the Asian car manufacturers an advantage in that regard.

Michael,

Didn't mean to offend you or Ford.

Gary

Gary,
We were having a decent back and forth until you went what I get a lot on this board (your buddy Paul Ryan), because I am not a flag waver for either of the two major candidates. Just didn't really expect it from the exchange we were having. No need to apologize.

We can vote Scott out in two years. Hope I am first inline.

If any of this is true, then you have to be a schizophrenic. With all the name changes, it might be hard for people to recall what you said under each ID, but for you to say:

"I have respect for all political leaders & wish them all nothing but the best!
As for me, according to those who know me well, I am intelligent, compassionate & fair, I strongly oppose those who are hurtful, disrespectful & full of deceit!" and "I have never been extreme left or right" has to be a joke. I get that on the last day, that you want to play the centrist thinking "little old lady from Pasadena" role, but I call BS on that. I know that for anybody just reading this one post of yours, I must look terrible, but you are either delusional about who you are or this is completely made up. Tell where in this previous post of yours, you see the individual that you just described yourself as:

"Get this liberals you are incapable of intelligent conversation, all you can do is throw insults, your me first & give me attitude will prove to be your downfall, enjoy being a puppet to the left wing leader who is pulling your strings, we are happy in knowledge for our belief in our right wing leader who appreciates our hard work & would never say "You Didn't Build That" well here's words of wisdom that you puppets will never comprehend "Yes We Built That & Damn Proud Of It" :)"

You may be a senior citizen and may be female, but any of the rest of that description of yourself is total nonsense.

Oh, did I screw up your deception? So sorry.

I have an X that talks as much as you.

...and I have a 6 year old niece that is more articulate than you. So what is your point?

Good Evening Mike, I have been staying out of this political chaos but have been following your posts & understand your wanting to have a drug database, I'd like to tell you my dad is a retired anesthesiologist, he was the best as many doctors & his patients would tell you despite the fact back then there was no drug database he kept one, he had pharmaceutical reps visit him so that he would endorse their drugs every time he refused them, my dad could have made millions but he had no interest in what he called dirty money, he was the last of the great doctors, can't tell you how proud I am of him, I believe you would be too!
As for now last year I was in a car accident & was referred to a pain management clinic, first thing that was asked of me was to sign a waiver stating that if I get hooked on the prescription drug, I would be held responsible, well I refused to sign that waiver & refused the prescription drugs which turned out to be steroids of some sort knowing full well how dangerous those meds are & how easy it is to get hooked on them & I thank God I listened to my dad's golden advice when he was in practice so I back you up completely, there needs to be an investigation & some measures need to be taken about this horrifying situation, I feel it needs to start on a state level also possibly get some law enforcement involved in this since they are the ones who are arresting the offenders, we can discuss it more after this crazy election is over, take care Mike :)

Oh ran out of room on last post, I will start a blog on this major issue & lets see who responds to it :)

Great post B Wood :)
I am a mixture of both parties, I have my own set of rules & like you I have a point system that I have always stuck to through out all elections :)
Now being a woman I wish 4 years ago Hillary became President, how great that would have been after all she was the one who did all the hard work while good ole Willy was busy chasing the ladies in the oval office, I still believe we need a woman in the White House, all these years men have tried & most of them failed oh well who knows maybe in 4 years women will get their wish for now I wish everybody good luck in their choice for President.

Are you one of the 47% that hates anyone that has wealth and made something out of themselves? Have you ever worked for a poor person?

For your info Romney would have paid taxes on the years he made made the money 39% + depending on the years he made the money. Anyone gets a tax deduction for the money they give to a charity if you give nothing you get nothing. The fact that he gives to the Mormons, they run a very big Welfare Square in Salt Lake City, Utah that gives food, clothes, diapers, appliances etc to everyone not just Mormons.

Romney didn't take a salary during his governorship so why would he owed taxes? He said the two years he was the head of the Olympics he would only take the $250,000 if the games made a profit. When they did make a profit he turned over the $250,000 to charity. Only stupid people think they should pay taxes on money they give away. He also gave his inheritance to charity.

Don't you thing Obama used the tax deduction for his Charity to Rev Wright's Church that hates America? Didn't he use the tax loophole this year to give his daughters $24,000. each.

I know one thing the Romney's wouldn't cost the taxpayers $4M on a Hawaiian vacation plus Michele's $11M on vacations. Harry Reid has nothing to go other than lies just like the Obamp camp.

Romney is a business man he doesn't care for sucking up to late night time entertainment, using kids, magazines, politifact, MSNBC, NBC, ABC, CBS etc if it wasn't for FOX reporting the other so called journalists would be mum. But I'm glad Amber Lyons exposed CNN http://amberlyonlive.com/

Boy, Keri Jay must not understand our tax code, and has a poor idea of Mr Romney's income stream. Like many of the ultra-rich, most of Romney's income comes NOT from salary but from interest, dividends, and capital gains.

Even if took nothing as a salary, he would have taxable income.

It's OK if you want to support Romney, but please do it for correct reasons and not some fantasy.

You know something Mike, I forgot to add my dad has been doing a lot of research on vitamins after that pain management clinic incident, he got me started on vitamins which are really helping ease my pain due to the accident, oh there is so much more I have to tell you as well, how wonderful you have 7 years of research in this hey who knows maybe we can brainstorm real soon & come up with a sensible solution, I will definitely start a blog on this right here at Safety Harbor Patch & will notify you when its up; take care Mike :)

Romney has told an easy 100 major lies during his campaign. I am just guessing there, but a simple Google search produces results that range from 300 to 600 lies in thirty weeks.

Obama has told 1,000 lies each year of his long 4 years

Watts,
It was a misleading ad. Jeep is opening up a manufacturing plant in China, due to Chinese law you have to manufacture with a part in order to sell automobiles to their population. And he ad says that Chrysler is owned by Italians which is true. They were ones with the biggest offer to purchase the franchise. So yes, they were purchased. What they decided to do with that property is their business.

Romney4President,
I'm sorry are you saying a Presidental Candidate from one of the two major parties isn't deceptive or changes opinions based on his focus groups. Romney isn't telling the full story, so yes he is being deceptive. No different tha Obama in areas.

Romney4President,
Romney is a used cars salesman, but no more or less than any presidental candidate in the last 40 years. Yes, that does include Obama. We are in a very odd era in our history due to the internet that we can fact check as instantaneously as we can. We are now more critical of our candidates then ever before, because we can see reference how quickly they have changed positions.

For "Romney4President", i would suggest that you try to learn something valid and true about the global automotive industry before posting the regurgitated myths and distortions that you did.

Not only the auto workers in Ohio and Michigan said that Romney was telling bold-faced lies, but the executives of both GM and Chrysler also made it clear that Romney was lying.

In fact, Romney succeeded in one thing here; he managed to unite the management and the workers of US automotive companies, which is quite a feat. Of course he united them into pointing out Romney's own lies, which isn't so good for Romney.

Ironically, the Jeep unit of Chrysler was the second western car company manufacturing in China with a Chinese JV, Beijing Jeep; begun by American Motors, that JV was shut down by Chrysler a few years after acquiring AMC. Now they want to again sell their product in China.

In any event, anyone imagining that a Western auto company could successfully sell a mass-market vehicle imported from the US (or Europe), rather than manufacturing it through a JV in China, doesn't understand the realities of either China or the global automotive business.

That makes Romney's pathetic attempt to use lies about Jeep moving Ohio jobs to China even more infuriating.

So I assume there is a CDS as well. Because there are people living in fantasy on all sides.

Keri Jay, I suggest you think of another insult for "liberals" ."LDS" is also another way to say "Mormon". In that context it stands for "Latter Day Saints". You are being insulting to a major religion in this country when your purpose is to insult people you don't agree with. Ah, the many benefits of reading rather than getting all your information from AM radio or FOX TV!

I think that is my queue to bring out an oldie and always a goodie...

"We all know that reality has a well known liberal bias"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSE_saVX_2A

3:10 - 3:20

Michael D, No doubt that CDS exists and it is widespead within the Republican Party. It is the belief Obama caused our national debt even though Bush started two wars that he didn't pay for and then gave tax cuts to millionaires. It is the believe that Fox News really tells the truth, that the "liberal media" always lies, that fact checkers are liars, that Rush Limbaugh is a conservative hero, that Mitt Romney really cares about women and the middle class, that we should replace science text books and teach the biblical creation story instead, that there is such a thing as "legitimate rape", and that Pres Obama is a socialist, a communist, a Muslim, a foreigner who was born in Kenya, and that he hates America and wants to redistribute your wealth and take away your guns.

No, but LDS is always LDS. If you mean Liberal Derangement Syndrome, you must spell it out. That was my point. If you are going to post on this Patch, you need to be a little quicker on the uptake.

Or the saying "Here comes the new boss, Same as the Old Boss."

And Gov Romney's profanity laced endorsement by Ted Nugent or some country star with a vocabulary limited to curse words. Or Kid Rock, that upstanding citizen. Or the Donald, (how many bankruptcies has he had now?) Gov. Romney actually appears with these people. What was that you were saying about birds of a feather? I believe it was President Bush II who looked into Putin's eyes when they first met, saw his soul and knew they could work together. Guess he didn't see anything in Putin's eyes about the weapons for terrorists, etc.

K-J: The time for these silly postings is over. Go vote, wait for the results and get used to a second term for President Obama.

Kid Rock is trash. Meth-head rock.

32 straight months of job growth, now accounting for 5.4 million jobs.

Given that race seems to be an issue for you, might it be more accurate to say that you didn't vote for Obama because he is black, black, black?